Discussion:
Copy of my letter send to the "moderators" of the Texas Rainbow Chat Room (knock three times and say the secret password!)
(too old to reply)
Rainbow Blue
2006-11-29 08:31:40 UTC
Permalink
I urge all involved in this "process' to take a look at the links below as
just a few of the reasons why you folks are heading down the WRONG ROAD on
this issue. I stand with MANY more than the fifty or so people who are
trying to hijack the consensus process (hell, this "chatroom" is a violation
of due consensus) If you DARE to moderate away my right to speak here as a
concerned person, you are only validating the injustice that is this
supposed consensus process.

The U.S. Forest Service have NOT been healthy stewards of the "public lands"
put into their trust. You are playing with fire if you believe that they are
trying to do anything other than control The Rainbow Family to the point of
bringing to an end our religious right to meet in Church to pray for peace
and the heroes of peace. "Principle" is a beautiful thing. You see, it's
never the PRINCIPLE in these sort of matters. Principle is always cool and
beautiful and groovy and meant to help and protect and provide for. It's the
implementation.

And the FS has a history of fucking the Rainbow Family over,
implementation-wise.

So Jeff and Garrick and the rest of you...AUCHTUNG!

Stop speaking for ME!

I never gave you the right.



http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=13050

http://www.taxpayer.net/forest/index.htm

http://www.forestcouncil.org/pdf/lostintheforest.pdf

http://www.forestcouncil.org/tims_picks/view.php?id=353

http://www.net.org/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=28799

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/greenpeace-has-launched-our-se

http://www.nativeforest.org/middle_east_fork/lawsuit_release.htm

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2002/2002-08-27-06.asp

http://www.fseee.org/forestmag/ivot/ja00iv.shtml

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May06/Juel19.htm

http://www.defazio.house.gov/100302EGRelease.shtml
--
Leo Burt - Where are you?
Be at peace - That War is Over.
ToyotaRocks
2006-11-29 10:10:23 UTC
Permalink
Dude, Any "chat room" that has Steven in any kind of charge (I am
assuming he is a moderator), is bound to be screwed.... Hell he tries
to manipulate and moderate people in person if it fits his cause.....

As I said in a previous post, how can some group be concidered rainbow
family, when it is moderated in the way the texas "chat" is?

I would say boycott the group, spread the word to have others do the
same.... pay no attention to them, and eventually they will figure out
what they are doing.....
Post by Rainbow Blue
I urge all involved in this "process' to take a look at the links below as
just a few of the reasons why you folks are heading down the WRONG ROAD on
this issue. I stand with MANY more than the fifty or so people who are
trying to hijack the consensus process (hell, this "chatroom" is a violation
of due consensus) If you DARE to moderate away my right to speak here as a
concerned person, you are only validating the injustice that is this
supposed consensus process.
The U.S. Forest Service have NOT been healthy stewards of the "public lands"
put into their trust. You are playing with fire if you believe that they are
trying to do anything other than control The Rainbow Family to the point of
bringing to an end our religious right to meet in Church to pray for peace
and the heroes of peace. "Principle" is a beautiful thing. You see, it's
never the PRINCIPLE in these sort of matters. Principle is always cool and
beautiful and groovy and meant to help and protect and provide for. It's the
implementation.
And the FS has a history of fucking the Rainbow Family over,
implementation-wise.
So Jeff and Garrick and the rest of you...AUCHTUNG!
Stop speaking for ME!
I never gave you the right.
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=13050
http://www.taxpayer.net/forest/index.htm
http://www.forestcouncil.org/pdf/lostintheforest.pdf
http://www.forestcouncil.org/tims_picks/view.php?id=353
http://www.net.org/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=28799
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/greenpeace-has-launched-our-se
http://www.nativeforest.org/middle_east_fork/lawsuit_release.htm
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2002/2002-08-27-06.asp
http://www.fseee.org/forestmag/ivot/ja00iv.shtml
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May06/Juel19.htm
http://www.defazio.house.gov/100302EGRelease.shtml
--
Leo Burt - Where are you?
Be at peace - That War is Over.
Rainbow Blue
2006-11-29 10:15:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by ToyotaRocks
Dude, Any "chat room" that has Steven in any kind of charge (I am
assuming he is a moderator), is bound to be screwed.... Hell he tries
to manipulate and moderate people in person if it fits his cause.....
As I said in a previous post, how can some group be concidered rainbow
family, when it is moderated in the way the texas "chat" is?
I would say boycott the group, spread the word to have others do the
same.... pay no attention to them, and eventually they will figure out
what they are doing.....
Hopefully, you are correct. Pretty damn hard to pass a feather around on
the Net, aho?
ToyotaRocks
2006-11-29 10:19:41 UTC
Permalink
I read through that group at times, not hard as there are not many
posts allowed, more talk of how posts were taken out then posts about
any kind of topic......

and Steven is involved.... put 2 and 2 together........

let them have their private rant....... why participate.
Post by Rainbow Blue
Post by ToyotaRocks
Dude, Any "chat room" that has Steven in any kind of charge (I am
assuming he is a moderator), is bound to be screwed.... Hell he tries
to manipulate and moderate people in person if it fits his cause.....
As I said in a previous post, how can some group be concidered rainbow
family, when it is moderated in the way the texas "chat" is?
I would say boycott the group, spread the word to have others do the
same.... pay no attention to them, and eventually they will figure out
what they are doing.....
Hopefully, you are correct. Pretty damn hard to pass a feather around on
the Net, aho?
Rainbow Blue
2006-11-29 10:24:13 UTC
Permalink
Prolly because of that old adage about not speaking up and then nobelly was
left to speak up for me...
Post by ToyotaRocks
I read through that group at times, not hard as there are not many
posts allowed, more talk of how posts were taken out then posts about
any kind of topic......
and Steven is involved.... put 2 and 2 together........
let them have their private rant....... why participate.
Post by Rainbow Blue
Post by ToyotaRocks
Dude, Any "chat room" that has Steven in any kind of charge (I am
assuming he is a moderator), is bound to be screwed.... Hell he tries
to manipulate and moderate people in person if it fits his cause.....
As I said in a previous post, how can some group be concidered rainbow
family, when it is moderated in the way the texas "chat" is?
I would say boycott the group, spread the word to have others do the
same.... pay no attention to them, and eventually they will figure out
what they are doing.....
Hopefully, you are correct. Pretty damn hard to pass a feather around on
the Net, aho?
Sanity
2006-11-29 13:41:23 UTC
Permalink
Rainbow Blue
2006-11-29 14:11:24 UTC
Permalink
"Sanity" <sanity-***@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:***@14g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
SP is a pal of mine and I'm surprised to hear that he would try to
stifle anyone's free speech. I say he's a pal because of our
collaboration on the Texas 88 case, not because I've ever spent any
time with him.
Post by Rainbow Blue
Prolly because of that old adage about not speaking up and then nobelly was
left to speak up for me...
That is the very reason I stay here on AGR and voice my opposition to
the NRMT and Permits.
Post by Rainbow Blue
Post by ToyotaRocks
I read through that group at times, not hard as there are not many
posts allowed, more talk of how posts were taken out then posts about
any kind of topic......
and Steven is involved.... put 2 and 2 together........
Oh, so now SP is blacklisted? LOL!
Post by Rainbow Blue
Post by ToyotaRocks
let them have their private rant....... why participate.
Why indeed? Open discussion on line is available @ the Usenet version
of AGR and moderated discussions are as lacking in freedom of speech as
a so -called "open council circle" at a Permit event; forasmuch as I
cannot attend one without being under said license/Permit. Permit
events are private affairs, moderated discussions are "hosted" by those
in control of them, I don't think it takes a rocket surgeon to see the
similarity.
Post by Rainbow Blue
Post by ToyotaRocks
Post by Rainbow Blue
Post by ToyotaRocks
Dude, Any "chat room" that has Steven in any kind of charge (I am
assuming he is a moderator), is bound to be screwed.... Hell he tries
to manipulate and moderate people in person if it fits his cause.....
As I said in a previous post, how can some group be concidered rainbow
family, when it is moderated in the way the texas "chat" is?
I would say boycott the group, spread the word to have others do the
same.... pay no attention to them, and eventually they will figure out
what they are doing.....
Hopefully, you are correct. Pretty damn hard to pass a feather around
on
Post by ToyotaRocks
Post by Rainbow Blue
the Net, aho?
Uh, no. On the land, in a council(el) circle the "feather" is a devise
that says, metaphorically, "focus on the speaker" and when it is
respected prevents interuptions, although I have seen people shouted
down. Around the cyber fire the metaphor is not needed because one can
have his or her say and clicking on the "send" button is the equal of
passing the feather. Of course two or more people may be typing their
opinions at the same time unaware of eachother's efforts, like two
people talking at the same time, but because the "listener" can only
consider the writings of one at a time the end result that each has
their say is the same and no one gets shouted down. :^)

IMHO moderated "chat" is the equal of shouting someone down in council
on the land.

Better put than my attempt to, thanks and I totally agree.

So too is vague put downs of others, like mud slinging at
SP is an attempt at moderating AGR in my eyes.

Mudslinging does no good and I never meant to sling any. I am reminded of
grandfather david speaks from the grave on the permit issue post here a
couple of years ago.


Private moderated chat
is what it is, and those who participate are free so to do. I haven't
lurked this Texas Chat thingy and don't play there, but because nothing
I know of has come out of it in dictation to my reason and effecting my
rights like Plunker/Garrick's signing a Permit for Utah, the private
email side of AGR seems far more of a threat to my rights. Liberty is
not license.

and that's another 2¢
Sanity Clause RE

What most fail to understand (imho) is that liberties aren't things granted
by the good graces of the government. By virture of the US Constitution,
they are only restatements of nature laws, in other words, rights you were
born with and not given by grace of government.

So fuck any government telling me where and when I can peaceably pray to the
Creator of my understanding, especially on lands set aside for the public.
Sanity
2006-11-29 15:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Rainbow Blue wrote:
[chomp]
Post by Rainbow Blue
What most fail to understand (imho) is that liberties aren't things granted
by the good graces of the government. By virture of the US Constitution,
they are only restatements of nature laws, in other words, rights you were
born with and not given by grace of government.
So fuck any government telling me where and when I can peaceably pray to the
Creator of my understanding, especially on lands set aside for the public.
Er, by Statute the National Forests are OWNED by the public, not "set
aside for" them. Landlords cannot trespass upon their own land, nor do
they require permission from their stewards.

"You speak treason." - Olivia deHavilland
"Fluently!" - Errol Flynn

The House of Winsor had a price on George Washington's head, "Dead or
Alive," for the crime of high treason until 1953. Think about it.

I also say fuck Plunker/Garrick/Scarecrow and the NRMT's collaberation
with the enemies of my Liberty! They can take their quasi holy Rainbow
Family cult down the road to perdition without me. I will not attend a
private Permit event that pretends to be open to the public all the
while annulling my rights! [readers will please pardon my use of
expletive or not at their Liberty and absolute discretion]

Wage Peace!
Sanity Clause RE
Preacher Mike
2006-11-29 15:13:59 UTC
Permalink
[readers will please pardon my use of expletive or not at their Liberty and
absolute discretion]

Chuckle ...
(((((((((((((((((((((Sanity Clause RE)))))))))))))))))))))))))
PM
Sanity
2006-11-29 15:36:03 UTC
Permalink
Hey, freedom ain't free unless everybody gets it, and I AM talking
about the Iraqi people that Dubya keeps tryin' to parentally govern,
without being elected by them... The representation without election
issue goes for Dubya as well as Plunker/Garrick/Scarecrow/theNRMT...

Peace,
Sanity RE
Post by Preacher Mike
[readers will please pardon my use of expletive or not at their Liberty and
absolute discretion]
Chuckle ...
(((((((((((((((((((((Sanity Clause RE)))))))))))))))))))))))))
PM
ToyotaRocks
2006-11-29 14:28:48 UTC
Permalink
so when I go to a regional I can just shut everyone up in circle or
otherwise ignore them? go with my own plan instead? Sorry but thats
pretty much what SP does anyhow, and the way that the texas chat has
been going. If it does not fit his bill (or hippystead although i do
not know her)
Post by Rainbow Blue
SP is a pal of mine and I'm surprised to hear that he would try to
stifle anyone's free speech. I say he's a pal because of our
collaboration on the Texas 88 case, not because I've ever spent any
time with him.
Post by Rainbow Blue
Prolly because of that old adage about not speaking up and then nobelly was
left to speak up for me...
That is the very reason I stay here on AGR and voice my opposition to
the NRMT and Permits.
Post by Rainbow Blue
Post by ToyotaRocks
I read through that group at times, not hard as there are not many
posts allowed, more talk of how posts were taken out then posts about
any kind of topic......
and Steven is involved.... put 2 and 2 together........
Oh, so now SP is blacklisted? LOL!
Post by Rainbow Blue
Post by ToyotaRocks
let them have their private rant....... why participate.
of AGR and moderated discussions are as lacking in freedom of speech as
a so -called "open council circle" at a Permit event; forasmuch as I
cannot attend one without being under said license/Permit. Permit
events are private affairs, moderated discussions are "hosted" by those
in control of them, I don't think it takes a rocket surgeon to see the
similarity.
Post by Rainbow Blue
Post by ToyotaRocks
Post by Rainbow Blue
Post by ToyotaRocks
Dude, Any "chat room" that has Steven in any kind of charge (I am
assuming he is a moderator), is bound to be screwed.... Hell he tries
to manipulate and moderate people in person if it fits his cause.....
As I said in a previous post, how can some group be concidered rainbow
family, when it is moderated in the way the texas "chat" is?
I would say boycott the group, spread the word to have others do the
same.... pay no attention to them, and eventually they will figure out
what they are doing.....
Hopefully, you are correct. Pretty damn hard to pass a feather around
on
Post by ToyotaRocks
Post by Rainbow Blue
the Net, aho?
Uh, no. On the land, in a council(el) circle the "feather" is a devise
that says, metaphorically, "focus on the speaker" and when it is
respected prevents interuptions, although I have seen people shouted
down. Around the cyber fire the metaphor is not needed because one can
have his or her say and clicking on the "send" button is the equal of
passing the feather. Of course two or more people may be typing their
opinions at the same time unaware of eachother's efforts, like two
people talking at the same time, but because the "listener" can only
consider the writings of one at a time the end result that each has
their say is the same and no one gets shouted down. :^)
IMHO moderated "chat" is the equal of shouting someone down in council
on the land. So too is vague put downs of others, like mud slinging at
SP is an attempt at moderating AGR in my eyes. Private moderated chat
is what it is, and those who participate are free so to do. I haven't
lurked this Texas Chat thingy and don't play there, but because nothing
I know of has come out of it in dictation to my reason and effecting my
rights like Plunker/Garrick's signing a Permit for Utah, the private
email side of AGR seems far more of a threat to my rights. Liberty is
not license.
and that's another 2¢
Sanity Clause RE
spiritrising
2006-11-29 13:41:32 UTC
Permalink
well when info is stiffled and those that were suposedly not speaking,
stephens words, then it looks like there is only one group really working on
a concensus. i call this the stifleing of info to direct the outcome, and
this is exactly what happened. i know of twenty posts about the tgc site
from various people that never made it there, along with names and numbers
of focalizers that were working on other venues for the tgc, this is why i
spoke out this year to really show the manipulation of the process that is
behind supposed councils. i think its time for the people to take back their
gathering, to boot those who have sought to manipulate and or control
outcomes to the side, if this is done the people might just have a voice in
the process. right now you have no voice no matter how many people say
otherwise.

IF rainbow is about going against control of government, then maybe it
should look at itself to see another form of fasicism and control right in
its own ranks. respect is one thing for elders, but when elders use that
respect for their own agendas, then to hell with that. its time for change.
redwing
--
.

www.rainbowsendfarm.info

www.bagelhole.org
Post by Rainbow Blue
Prolly because of that old adage about not speaking up and then nobelly was
left to speak up for me...
Post by ToyotaRocks
I read through that group at times, not hard as there are not many
posts allowed, more talk of how posts were taken out then posts about
any kind of topic......
and Steven is involved.... put 2 and 2 together........
let them have their private rant....... why participate.
Post by Rainbow Blue
Post by ToyotaRocks
Dude, Any "chat room" that has Steven in any kind of charge (I am
assuming he is a moderator), is bound to be screwed.... Hell he tries
to manipulate and moderate people in person if it fits his cause.....
As I said in a previous post, how can some group be concidered rainbow
family, when it is moderated in the way the texas "chat" is?
I would say boycott the group, spread the word to have others do the
same.... pay no attention to them, and eventually they will figure out
what they are doing.....
Hopefully, you are correct. Pretty damn hard to pass a feather around
on
Post by ToyotaRocks
Post by Rainbow Blue
the Net, aho?
spiritrising
2006-11-29 13:23:08 UTC
Permalink
i didn't realize you knew about forest council, well welcome to the club.
spiritrising
--
.

www.rainbowsendfarm.info

www.bagelhole.org
Post by Rainbow Blue
I urge all involved in this "process' to take a look at the links below as
just a few of the reasons why you folks are heading down the WRONG ROAD on
this issue. I stand with MANY more than the fifty or so people who are
trying to hijack the consensus process (hell, this "chatroom" is a violation
of due consensus) If you DARE to moderate away my right to speak here as a
concerned person, you are only validating the injustice that is this
supposed consensus process.
The U.S. Forest Service have NOT been healthy stewards of the "public lands"
put into their trust. You are playing with fire if you believe that they are
trying to do anything other than control The Rainbow Family to the point of
bringing to an end our religious right to meet in Church to pray for peace
and the heroes of peace. "Principle" is a beautiful thing. You see, it's
never the PRINCIPLE in these sort of matters. Principle is always cool and
beautiful and groovy and meant to help and protect and provide for. It's the
implementation.
And the FS has a history of fucking the Rainbow Family over,
implementation-wise.
So Jeff and Garrick and the rest of you...AUCHTUNG!
Stop speaking for ME!
I never gave you the right.
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=13050
http://www.taxpayer.net/forest/index.htm
http://www.forestcouncil.org/pdf/lostintheforest.pdf
http://www.forestcouncil.org/tims_picks/view.php?id=353
http://www.net.org/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=28799
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/greenpeace-has-launched-our-se
http://www.nativeforest.org/middle_east_fork/lawsuit_release.htm
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2002/2002-08-27-06.asp
http://www.fseee.org/forestmag/ivot/ja00iv.shtml
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May06/Juel19.htm
http://www.defazio.house.gov/100302EGRelease.shtml
--
Leo Burt - Where are you?
Be at peace - That War is Over.
Rainbow Blue
2006-11-29 14:03:45 UTC
Permalink
I was involved at a distance with the omlandz process and have been
following this thing for better part of two years from the cheap seats. I
thought it was time to speak up.
Post by spiritrising
i didn't realize you knew about forest council, well welcome to the club.
spiritrising
--
.
www.rainbowsendfarm.info
www.bagelhole.org
Post by Rainbow Blue
I urge all involved in this "process' to take a look at the links below as
just a few of the reasons why you folks are heading down the WRONG ROAD on
this issue. I stand with MANY more than the fifty or so people who are
trying to hijack the consensus process (hell, this "chatroom" is a violation
of due consensus) If you DARE to moderate away my right to speak here as a
concerned person, you are only validating the injustice that is this
supposed consensus process.
The U.S. Forest Service have NOT been healthy stewards of the "public lands"
put into their trust. You are playing with fire if you believe that they are
trying to do anything other than control The Rainbow Family to the point of
bringing to an end our religious right to meet in Church to pray for peace
and the heroes of peace. "Principle" is a beautiful thing. You see, it's
never the PRINCIPLE in these sort of matters. Principle is always cool and
beautiful and groovy and meant to help and protect and provide for. It's the
implementation.
And the FS has a history of fucking the Rainbow Family over,
implementation-wise.
So Jeff and Garrick and the rest of you...AUCHTUNG!
Stop speaking for ME!
I never gave you the right.
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=13050
http://www.taxpayer.net/forest/index.htm
http://www.forestcouncil.org/pdf/lostintheforest.pdf
http://www.forestcouncil.org/tims_picks/view.php?id=353
http://www.net.org/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=28799
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/greenpeace-has-launched-our-se
http://www.nativeforest.org/middle_east_fork/lawsuit_release.htm
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2002/2002-08-27-06.asp
http://www.fseee.org/forestmag/ivot/ja00iv.shtml
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May06/Juel19.htm
http://www.defazio.house.gov/100302EGRelease.shtml
--
Leo Burt - Where are you?
Be at peace - That War is Over.
spiritrising
2006-11-29 13:28:07 UTC
Permalink
funny part is he will talk to you in such a way to make it look like he is
on your page, then wham! your it. if you remember the post jay made about
how he said they were pushing austin and it was a fake council and the real
council somewhere else, and jay went along with it. stephen can talk a
smooth can of shit when he wants. spiritrising
--
.

www.rainbowsendfarm.info

www.bagelhole.org
Post by Rainbow Blue
I urge all involved in this "process' to take a look at the links below as
just a few of the reasons why you folks are heading down the WRONG ROAD on
this issue. I stand with MANY more than the fifty or so people who are
trying to hijack the consensus process (hell, this "chatroom" is a violation
of due consensus) If you DARE to moderate away my right to speak here as a
concerned person, you are only validating the injustice that is this
supposed consensus process.
The U.S. Forest Service have NOT been healthy stewards of the "public lands"
put into their trust. You are playing with fire if you believe that they are
trying to do anything other than control The Rainbow Family to the point of
bringing to an end our religious right to meet in Church to pray for peace
and the heroes of peace. "Principle" is a beautiful thing. You see, it's
never the PRINCIPLE in these sort of matters. Principle is always cool and
beautiful and groovy and meant to help and protect and provide for. It's the
implementation.
And the FS has a history of fucking the Rainbow Family over,
implementation-wise.
So Jeff and Garrick and the rest of you...AUCHTUNG!
Stop speaking for ME!
I never gave you the right.
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=13050
http://www.taxpayer.net/forest/index.htm
http://www.forestcouncil.org/pdf/lostintheforest.pdf
http://www.forestcouncil.org/tims_picks/view.php?id=353
http://www.net.org/proactive/newsroom/release.vtml?id=28799
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/greenpeace-has-launched-our-se
http://www.nativeforest.org/middle_east_fork/lawsuit_release.htm
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2002/2002-08-27-06.asp
http://www.fseee.org/forestmag/ivot/ja00iv.shtml
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/May06/Juel19.htm
http://www.defazio.house.gov/100302EGRelease.shtml
--
Leo Burt - Where are you?
Be at peace - That War is Over.
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